Yes, folks, I have been searching the ancient ruins of the Nacirema for the legendary Missing Blogs of Parsons University. I have crawled across ruins, fought scavengers and computer viruses, scoured the internet for traces of evidence put in by some op-ed column guy long, long ago. At last, in Washington, near something called a Post, I have found it: the topic of the Lost Blog of Parsons U.!
Here's the link.
Here's my question, after you read the Op-Ed piece: at what price do we keep our rights as American citizens? Do we waive these rights if we are suspected (or proven) to be in the midst of a terrorist attack on our country?
Let's say things are different in NYC. Say this alleged terrorist was NOT a member of The Idiot Club of Terrorists. Say he knew how to put together a bomb that could kill hundreds. Or thousands. Or, if he had a nuclear device, millions. At what level do we waive the Miranda rights of American citizens?
Remember, this man is NOT a foreign national. He is a naturalized American citizen. If he called for a lawyer, and then refused to speak about the whereabouts of the weapon he'd initiated, what then would we do? At what point are the protected freedoms guaranteed to each citizen in the Constitution trumped by national interest?
Your thoughts, in about 300 words or so, will do nicely, and this will constitute the Missing Blog of Parsons U.
-- MP
this author is right. At which point do we say to hell with the rules of arresting someone. Such as reading someone thier Miranda right's. me personaly if you are involved with terroristic plots, people, and or ideal's you should have no miranda rights because groups like these have not done any good for thier fellow man. Now thats not to say if they start collecting for unicef, that they will cease to be and orginization bent to terror.
ReplyDeleteAlso at which point does a collective group of people become a terrorist orginization? is it when they choose not to follow the laws of thier country? Could the united states be considered a terrorist orginzation. I'd like to think not but what if we didn't have laws to follow? wouldn't some of our current actions be considered terroristic actions?
All in all if you plot on a large scale to hurt, destroy, or kill you should have no rights what so ever.
Personally, after reading this article it irritates me that we have “American” citizens putting our lives in danger. Considering this man is basically a terrorist I do not believe that he should be able to keep his rights as an American citizen when his purpose was to terrorize the people of the United States. If it were an actual American citizen we were dealing with then I feel the same rights should be applied, but not as harsh considering they were born and raised in the United States and did not travel to another foreign country in order to be taught how to make bombs. The mere fact that the man responsible for the bomb in Time Square traveled in order to be educated on how to make a bomb says that he had nothing but bad intentions for the lives of the people in America. It is disappointing that we let individuals like him into our country in order to have a better life, and they turn around and try harming our citizens. I do not think he should be treated as an American citizen because he does not deserve the rights after his actions. I feel as though he may technically be an American citizen, but no citizen the lives in our country should ever purposely put others in danger. He obviously had the intention of killing people, and he should either be tried as am American citizen with attempted murder or lose his rights as a citizen completely because we do not need someone like him living in our country putting us in danger.
ReplyDeleteI find it hard to question the humanity or lawfulness of the way the government treats terrorists. Even common murderers have more excuse than such offenders. At least these people can claim they were overtaken by anger or jealousy, I can see where they are coming from. Do not misquote this, I do not condone murder or any other crime. But these crimes of passion evoke a feeling closer to sympathy than anger. A man who tries to set off a bomb in a public place to strike terror into our nation gets no sympathy from me. There is no circumstance in which this would ever cross a sane human being's mind. Some may consider my anger an attack on the middle eastern race, but this is not so. These people treat the American people with less respect than they would animals. Why then should we give terrorists the rights we constantly must fight for in this country. People make mistakes, this is a fact. But people who commit such precognitive acts deserve no liberty. This man traveled out of the country to learn how to make this bomb and returned with a plan to detonate it. His crime was passionately planned and should be treated as such.
ReplyDeleteThe people who are so concerned with how the government handled the situation should take a step back and examine how to stop future attacks. It is remarkable to me that a man can attempt to blow up innocent people and the press becomes concerned with his rights. This is all backwards! I'm not asserting that this man should be killed on the spot, but not asking him enough questions before the arrest is no concern of mine. He did the crime and as a result he will be punished. Why delay the process with a lengthy interrogation when a man is apparently guilty?
I think that the author is right about what he wrote. What will it take for someone to do for us to just forget about the rules and everything and do what we think is right off the bat? I think that people who are doing extremely dangerous things like making bombs and setting them off in places where thousands or millions of people can die have lost any rights they deserve. They shouldn’t even be given a chance to explain themselves because really what are they going to say? I agree with what Cassie said about how it irritated her that “American” citizens putting our lives in danger, being Canadian I can totally understand from the outsiders view. But the fact is that theses people are citizens. They may come from other places around the world but a lot of America today is people from other countries, that’s what made up this place in the first place. I personally don’t get why people like the man in this article become citizens. I don’t plan on ever becoming a citizen of this country just because I don’t plan on living here and I’ve been put through so much bullshit with this government it would just be too much work. In order to become a citizen you have to get your green card first and that’s good enough for me, so I don’t know why people like this man would become citizens, just so he can state when he’s doing something dumb with a bomb that he’s a citizen and its okay? I think that he should definitely lose his rights as a citizen and possibly leave. I just don’t think someone who does a crime as big as what this man has done should be able to be in this country, its putting too many peoples lives in danger.
ReplyDeleteThe Missing Blog—The Price of Citizens Rights
ReplyDeleteAs of now there has been much criticism towards the way the latest terrorist situation in New York City was handled, the mysterious car bomb of Mr. Shahzad. Most of the criticism arises from there not being a lot of information being released on how the investigation was handled. As I watched the evening news on ABC this evening, May 5th, they announced that no rights were violated within the interrogation process of Mr. Shahzad. He was in fact read his Miranda Rights while under arrest. Apparently when he was arrested Mr. Shahzad asked the officers, “What took you so long? I have been waiting”. After hearing this comment I do not care if his rights were violated. Shahzad’s comment is quite disturbing because it shows the twisted mind set of these terrorist. They do not care if they get caught, they are actually excepting to. These terrorist acts are done for glory. For this reason is why I struggle with taking a side on the issue of waiving the rights of American citizens to prevent a terrorist attack that would kill a number of innocent citizens. In every other situation American citizens rights should never be violated by the government, and I will fight for that. I think most of the regulations enforced under the Patriot Act instituted in after September 11th are in complete violation of the American citizen’s rights. Yet I think there is an appropriate time to waive the Miranda Rights of American citizens. If there is a person or person(s) in custody, such as in the Shahzad case, their rights can be waived to force information out of them in order to save innocent civilians. I realize this is an absolute contradiction to my beliefs, but I feel as if this is an entirely different situation. I guess I am just a product of 9/11.
Who really cares about his rights? I don’t get why the news is so concerned about his rights. He maybe an American citizen but he is also a terrorist and associated with a terrorist group. I understand the Miranda Rights is one of the things that make America the country it is but when someone puts millions of lives at stake and wants to hurt them. They are terrorists and their rights should be taken away. People always complain about the justice system and how there are so many holes in it. The justice system always takes way to long and have to do things by the book when they are losing value time to get information. Forget the guys rights I don’t have any mercy for him but maybe the information he gave them were important and we needed to know if there were any more attacks planed. He may be an American Citizen but I think if you associate with terrorists your rights should be waved.
ReplyDeleteI know the rights of the people are what makes this country so great and that is what makes America so different from other countries. So even though we all have no mercy for this guy we have to follow the book no matter how bad we don’t want to.
I feel that there should be a limit to where an American deserves rights. This man could have easily killed millions and we treat him the same as if someone that had stolen a wallet or was drinking and driving. Sure these are still crimes but not to the depth of millions dead. I feel that we must treat Americans the same as we treat foreign terrorist. I am a fraternity man, and must live by certain rules or else it results in punishment. If a brother punches a hole in the wall of the house, they must have a punishment otherwise other brothers will continue to do it. That is the same for terrorist. If the punishment is not as strict for Americans, then what’s to stop any American from blowing up our country? It’s a travesty thinking that any American would want to hurt our country and ruin our freedom. Patriotism is huge in our country, but it only truly shows in the times of travesty. Had this American citizen succeeded, Americans would have just come closer together, as we did with 9/11. The cut would have been deeper because it was one of our own, but we would have grown from it. But we must nip it in the butt early and give this man a severe punishment so that fellow Americans do not follow. This is why I feel that extreme crime violators do not deserve the rights of an American. They should not deserve the right to a lawyer or to remain silent, because what if this man had a dozen more bombs hidden throughout the city. He wouldn't have been forced to talk and half the city, if not all, would have been blown to pieces. Thank god this wasn't the case and no actual damage was done.
ReplyDeleteI think it is terrible that we have people living in America that want to destroy it, if you don't like it here, or enjoy our laws, please leave. I feel that this guy is an american citizen but he was still was born in pakistan. I believe people that head back to their country for a long period of time sound have to get re-evaluated before coming back to the united states, due to opinions about their ideas and values changing in that short time. In this scenario this man deserved to not have his miranda rights read, he was obviously the known suspect and to have a man like that read rights in stupid. He could have killed thousands of people, especially after 9/11 we need to take things like this even more seriously. Terrorists scare me more than murderers do, at least murderers get put away and kill one person or slightly more, but a terrorist is out to kill many people and influence and ruin or economy. I feel that people that do such extreme acts as these deserve no rights and be automatically put to death.
ReplyDeleteHonestly this is a really sensitive topic. I agree with what the author wrote. They can not jeopardize thousands of people's lives to give a terrorist his Miranda rights. That is not right because many Americans can possibly die because of trying to protect the terrorist of his rights. After a policeman assumes that a person is a terrorist, that individual should not have any rights because there are too many risks if a policeman actually did that. If the individual was an actual terrorist and the policeman gave him his rights, which would look awful for our society. I think it is ridiculous why there are people out there who are willing to risk their own life to kill a thousand of innocent people. What do killing innocent people prove? Wouldn't you think the terrorist would feel horrible about killing these people who have not done a thing to deserve this? This guy could not have been a true "American" citizen if he really wanted to make a car bomb go off in the middle of New York City. New York City is such a well known place for businesses, and it is a good place where people like to visit. I am not saying a single American citizen would not become a terrorist but what this individual does fit in the terrorist profile. I know this might sound a little bias but Americans are taught to never hurt somebody that does not deserve it. After the war that we have been in for such a long time because of the incident of September 11, 2001 it is hard not to assume that Middle Eastern are more likely to do a terrorist attack over an American. It just makes no sense for a single person or group to try and destroy a city filled with civil Americans. I honestly think that if some one is assumed for being a terrorist they do not deserve rights. There is a reason why a person is assumed that they are doing a terrorist act. They are not going to accuse a random person out of the blue.
ReplyDeleteI thought this blog was interesting. I had kind of heard about this case before reading the article, but I didn’t know the full extent of the case. If you think about it, it’s a little scary that an American citizen tried to blow up a car in Time Square. That means we have a terrorist in our mist. When think about car bombings you think there only in places like Afghanistan and Iraq and not in New York City.
ReplyDeleteIf a person is suspected to be a terrorist or proven to be a terrorist and they are U.S. citizen they should have their rights waved. Even though they are citizens they were trying to hurt a lot of people. And if they end up hurting a lot people, I know the family members of those hurt would want to see every kind of justice for their family.
I agree with the majority of the posts above. It is very sad that Americans are trying to corrupt and destroy millions of lives and cities that so many soldiers have died to protect. We spend all this time with the War in Iraq and Afghanistan 'fighting terror' when we are letting hundreds of terrorist’s right in the front door. Yes, these attacks would cripple our nation even more, but I think our nation needs to focus on how to prevent them instead of being so consumed with the current situation. Yes, what happened in Time Square was almost a catastrophe but thankfully it didn't happen. To prevent these events from happening in the future, I think it's imperative that the United States crack down on citizenship requirements. I understand that racial profiling is frowned upon but that is the cost the nation might have to pay for the safety of all our citizens. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying to profile every citizen-to-be of Middle Eastern decent, however we do need to realize and understand who we are allowing to become an ‘American.’ By tightening and enhancing requirements for Citizenship along with even more detailed background checks, I believe that it will help the Government understand the people who is requesting citizenship along with give us the chance to be even more selective with who can and cannot enter these borders. Ultimately, if it hurts a few people’s feelings, in the end it ensures that our nation remains safe and without terror.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to begin by saying that hopefully this scenario actually happens. The Time Square incident was thankfully not severe, despite however it was handled.
ReplyDeleteBeing an avid fan of the show '24' it has come to my attention how important this argument is. In previous blogs you asked us on our opinion of privacy which goes hand in hand with this topic. It terms of privacy, sure I'd hate to have it invaded. But if it saved millions of lives I'd have no problem with the government poking around my emails or whatever.
'24' explores this conflict in many of Jack Bauer's encounters with terrorists withholding information when time is limited. It usually comes down to making a deal for a pardon or something. But in all fairness '24' is a show and in reality I think that the Miranda rights should be tossed out if the situation is dire enough.
If any number of lives is at stake saving them should be the priority over one persons civil liberties.
This is the age old paradox of government at its core. On one end any government's purpose is to govern its people with fair laws, but at the same time it must also protect its people. If the two conflict I say human life supersedes the law of man.
I'm really torn on this topic. I believe that there is no situation in which a person should not be read their Miranda Rights. However, in a situation involving terrorism it is a completely different story. To what extent were we aware of Faisal Shahzad's guilt before his arrest? Considering the bomb had been previously taken care of and the attack was unsuccessful, there were no immediate signs of danger. I'm going to have to say that I believe everyone deserves to be treated with the same rights, no matter how much they dislike this country. By showing respect to even the dirtiest of criminals our country sets a tone which is dignifying and elevating. In an absolutely detrimental terrorist situation these rights may be waived to save the lives of a greater population. However, Shahzad was arrested by a customs officer in the JFK airport-bombless may I add. To be honest, the lack of reading him his rights most likely sprouted from laziness.
ReplyDeleteAlso, to say that if a person doesn't like it in our country then they can leave is just ignorant. We are certainly not a Utopian society and it is wrong to think that people who are assimilated into our commercialized, capitalist culture will agree with everything we abide by. The greatest thing that our government can do is hold to its written law and provide every person with equal rights, now matter how unjust their ethics.
I agree with the author on this point. When American’s lives are in danger and there is a known terrorist attack you must act instantly. At a point you must abandoned the rules and act quickly. Everyone knows their Miranda Rights and when you’re a citizen trying to harm the public you should have no rights at all. Yes, it is a freedom we have in our country and yes, it does go against the laws we have followed for hundreds of years. However, in certain circumstances you do not have time to think about telling someone their rights before arresting them. I propose we make a statue about this situation. Case sof an extreme emergency you can act instantly and then remind them of their rights.
ReplyDeleteI think it is actually ridiculous that this is actually an issue. I feel like this is a lawyer trying to distract the public from the actual problem. These terrorists have no rational explanation for their act and therefore they do not need any rights. The fact that he was an American is even more scary, and the fact that he had received bomb training in Wazirista should of alerted the government before this happened. The government should take preventative actions before something like this happens again. If they do then this Miranda Rights situation would not be a problem.
First, I would like to point out that Shahzad was arrested after the bomb was found and disabled. Therefore, he was read his rights after the imminent danger passed. The fact that he was able to plant a bomb (even if it wouldn't have worked) without law enforcement being aware of the plot is much more worrisome to me than anything having to do with his Miranda Rights. He shouldn't have been able to get that far in the first place.
ReplyDeleteThat troubling thought aside, I highly doubt he would've spilled the beans about where the bomb was located had he been arrested prior to the initiation of the plot. In that sense, whether he was read his Miranda Rights or not is a moot point. It is highly likely he would've remained silent anyway.
As for how far we go to protect our rights as American citizens, I believe that the Miranda Rights should never be suspended. Taking a written law or the Constitution and enforcing only certain articles at certain times not specified as a part of the law itself destroys the integrity of the whole legal system. And isn't that what terrorists want? Isn't that the goal? By allowing fear to diminish our rights and control when and how our laws are enforced gives terrorists a victory. They hate the fact that we have rights that don't agree with their ideology. Suspending the Miranda Rights whenever we feel a "terrorist" attack (what defines a terrorist attack, exactly?) may be imminent shows not only how afraid we are, but also how little we really believe in American justice. Apparently, we only pay lip service to the effectiveness of our judicial system. I think the whole Miranda Rights issue here is only a political distraction. Maybe, if we worry a little more about our government agencies actually working together, sharing information, and catching terrorists before the plots are put into action, we wouldn't have debacles like this one.
Short, sweet and to the point. I liked that about this article. I felt it defiantly made me think. I knew about what had happened with Mr. Shahzad, as I had seen in on the news, but I hadn’t followed up much on it during my busy week.
ReplyDeleteAmerican citizen or not, this man is a terrorist. The moment you become a terrorist and carry out actions of terrorism (successful or not), you loose all rights. It doesn’t matter if you are American or foreign, once you set up to take that many lives, you must face a sever bit of punishment. Travelling out of the country to learn how to make a bomb, and then coming back into the country to construct/set it off is inexcusable. As well as something no country should want to happen within their borders. The moment someone goes through all this his or her right as an American citizen is dead to me.
I am not necessarily concerned with how the government handled this yet. I am positive they made sure this man received exactly what he should of for the situation at hand. I have hope that they carried out all the procedures in the most effective and appropriate way they saw fit. As much as I don’t care for government, when they are ready they will release whatever they believe the public needs to know. But that shouldn’t matter right now. For now I think we should trust the government to take care of the situation and move forward with proceedings and the issue itself. Knowing how long they questioned his man is hardly my top concern at this point. It worries me, like many of the above posts, that his was able to go about planting the bomb.
First of all this whole situation is an outrage! I understand that officials need to protect us and our nation, however is does not mean that they have the right to abuse someones rights! Racial profiling has become an evident issue throughout the nation, we have seen it in the past and we are not witnessing it in present day. You would think that in 2010 we as a nation would be better than that, but we have seen otherwise.
ReplyDeleteDuring WWII when the Japanese attacked American soil, it was a terrible disaster but it didn’t take long before the US started to discriminate Japanese-Americans. If you looked Japanese you were sent to a concentration camp! Now this was extremely unfair not only to the Japanese but also to others that were of asian decent. Many were put into these camps and some of them weren’t even Japanese, among them were Chinese and some from the Philippines.
Right after the 9/11 attacks, fear swept across the nation and in turn we began to blame all the individuals that looked arab. At airports they were most likely to be stopped and searched. Because the government acted this way, the public began to distrust anyone that looked middle eastern. The Patriot Act was quickly passed. This gave the government the authority to completely put our rights aside and take actions such as tap into our phone conversations and check other personal things. This is just one example of how our rights are violated almost on a day to day basis.
Another very important and present issue is the Arizona Immigration Law SB1070. Not only is it unconstitutional its encourages racial profiling! The law gives officials the authority to stop someone who may “look” illegal and ask for their papers. I understand that the nation has immigration issues, however, this is not the way to go about it. This is a federal issue not a state issue, and Congress should start looking at ways to reform immigration policies. If this is where we are headed than America no longer holds the values that it was believed be founded upon and I’m worried for the future of the country, my rights and future generations.
The news has been making a big deal about the way Shahzad’s arrest was handled. The critics are bothered with the fact that he was not read his Miranda rights while under arrest. I believe that in such a case of terrorist attack, or any other un-American act, that those rights should be taken away for the safety of others. This man traveled out of our country to learn how to make this bomb. How twisted can a person be, really? He was ready to take the lives of innocent people. The only reason, I think, the Miranda rights are in affect is to ensure that we do not arrest the wrong person. Honestly, for my country, if I was arrested in suspicion of a terrorist attack, I would not be upset. If I honestly didn’t do it, then I would be later freed. I think the fact that he was not read his rights, was for more protection, because he was then later questioned by more professional interrogators. I think the safety of the innocent is more important than our American rights. We need to act as quickly as possible when citizens’ lives are in danger. I am about to be in New York studying for the fall semester, and will be living near Times Square. If this were to of happened then, I would be very grateful for the way this situation was handled. Although Shahzad is a natural born American citizen, he is still a terrorist. He took time out of his life to learn how to make this bomb. He took time out of his day to kill innocent fellow citizens. He was performing a harmful act against the government. For all these reasons, he is a terrorist against America. Anyone who is willing to kill their fellow citizens, is not American. Forget the legal documents, forget his Miranda Rights, he is a terrorist. Therefore, he is not a citizen of my country.
ReplyDeleteThis article brings up a very debatable issue of when it should be allowed if ever, to violate ones rights in order to protect the lives of others. This is not the first time an issue like this has been brought up. Much of this was discussed during President George W. Bush’s time in office. Following the September 11th attacks, the Patriot Act stirred up quite a commotion about the violation of people privacy and rights. On top of this the concept of interrogation was a huge issue as well. I feel these issues are actually more politically than anything. Some argue that doing anything necessary to protect the lives of the larger population is the only way to go. On the other end of the spectrum, some argue that our country was built upon the ideas of our rights and freedoms, and nothing can violate that.
ReplyDeleteI do see validity with both sides of the argument, but when considering the possibility of lives being at stake, be it one or one million, I find myself agreeing with those that believe we must protect the larger population. Although one’s rights may be violated, I believe if there is sufficient evidence showing a persons involvement in a terrorist attack such as this one, then their rights should be violated if necessary in order to protect innocent lives. There is risk in this, considering that the suspect could be innocent, but if innocent people’s lives are at stake then the risk is simply worth it. Which is more important, the value of someone’s privacy and rights, or the value of human lives? For myself, the value of human lives is much more important and worth violation of one person’s right. Besides, whether the suspects rights are violated or not, they will still have there life, while the others may not.
In times of distress more people are likely not give a damn about the rules. Its disappointing that these terrorism plots happen on our soil and we catch no wind of it. If the person in custody is truly guilty with no trial of any kind they lose those rights as soon as the cool steel of the handcuffs touches their skin.
ReplyDeleteI feel no sympathy for the man, but I do forgive him. I just find it hard to believe that people care about the obstruction of his rights than the thousands of people's lives had been spared. They had reason to question him before reading the rights, why, if in the few seconds the officers were reading the rights, another terror plot could have unfolded.
If there is anything to say, I'm sure the guy would have said it. So I think it is best to let him wallow in his shame and enjoy his little six by ten for the next several months.